then why not just skip to the heaven part for everyone?
P.S. I said basically "God would be evil because there's evil which he could stop but won't" You said "God is not evil because they are human evils" Then I said "God didn't have to make evil people, and even if evil were nessesary it doesn't need to be taken to the extremes it is."
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/13 13:02
By: the_crampo
Status:
Steely Dan wrote: Then I said "God didn't have to make evil people, and even if evil were nessesary it doesn't need to be taken to the extremes it is."
When are you going to make a point? Have you actually ever made an argument? Can you respond properly instead of posting this pointless tidbits of god knows what?
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/14 03:43
By: BravoLima
Status:
'An eternity of happiness puts a sock in your argument.'
Unbaptised babies don't go to heaven. They go to hell. An eternity of rot, fire, inferno.
If there was a God, he would be sued for gross negligence.
'You dont need to, because you think you know everything.'
That's okay, you're equally arogant. We should get hitched. You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/14 04:48
By: Dan69
Status:
BravoLima wrote: 'An eternity of happiness puts a sock in your argument.'
Unbaptised babies don't go to heaven. They go to hell. An eternity of rot, fire, inferno.
If there was a God, he would be sued for gross negligence.
Actually Bravo, according to scripture, a child who dies before the age of choice (which, for being baptized is eight) Automatically goes to heaven. Have you even read these things? Or do you just blindy lash out at anything that you can with no prior knowlege of it? No those pants don't make your butt look big. It doesn't need any help looking big.
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/14 07:40
By: the_crampo
Status:
Thank you Dan69.
Bravo, I have actually agreed with you on a few small things. I am not unbending, its just we have such polarized views that we both appear arrogant to each other I suppose.
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/15 03:24
By: BravoLima
Status:
'Actually Bravo, according to scripture, a child who dies before the age of choice (which, for being baptized is eight) Automatically goes to heaven. Have you even read these things? Or do you just blindy lash out at anything that you can with no prior knowlege of it?'
According to scripture? If there is no contradiction with the scriptures, I'll eat my own hat. I'm not the only one who's heard that non-baptised children don't go to heaven. Thus, the inconsistency of story-telling.
Besides, my original point was in response to cramps talking about how God should stay out of our business, and that the pictures that Steely Dan showed was because of mankind's fault, not the gross negligence of this fictional God. Maybe I jumped the gun, but what he mentioned was rife in the bad smell of the notion that God puts us here to learn lessons. That's why I mentioned the baby dying. What lesson was learnt. It's all bullshit. The baby gets no chance to live and become what he/she will in heaven. According to your precious scripture, the baby would for all eternity be just a baby, even if it went to heaven.
And I hardly think scripture is proof that that baby doesn't go to hell. You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/21 06:32
By: Dan69
Status:
According to what I have read, the reason the babies die so soon, (if you want to go into just the religious aspect of it) is because they have nothing they need to learn by coming here, and that all they need is a physical body.
Myself, I don't believe that, but in order to stay on topic with your argument I had to point it out.
I think, that if there really is a divine entity, and it had a reason for that to happen, it would be that the child's soul was never sent to the body, and that the parents were the ones who were supposed to learn something. But, more likely, there is no reason for it happening, and if there is a divine entity out there who is letting it happen, it would still be a question of free will VS. intervention. In some cases, things could have been done by doctors to save the life, or proper care would have kept that life from being in danger in the first place.
No one created evil people, whether you believe in god or not, you should realize that everyone has a choice on how they will act. Even someone who has a mental disability chooses how to act on some level. No those pants don't make your butt look big. It doesn't need any help looking big.
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/25 01:43
By: BravoLima
Status:
No one created evil people? Didn't God create us all?
Can I see a peer reviewed study outlining cases where children have been born without a soul compared to children that have been born with a soul?
Didn't think so. You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/28 06:03
By: Dan69
Status:
Can you provide evidence against what I said? No, you can't. It's all speculation on either side.
Don't ask for something you cannot provide for your own arguements Bravo.
Scientists can't prove, or disprove the existance of a god. And neither can you. No one can. That is why it is called faith.
Furthermore, whether religion is true or not, you can't deny that it does give some measure of comfort to people. Not to mention the fact that even though there are a few that take things too far, religion has done good for the people here. No those pants don't make your butt look big. It doesn't need any help looking big.
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/29 03:45
By: BravoLima
Status:
Evidence against what you said? Ooh, got me there.
God is a woman, she likes to three-way with Mexican pornstars, drink cherry soda on Saturdays, absolutely hates queers, to the point she wants all of them dead, she just couldn't be bothered. She likes playing computer games and guys with hazel eyes.
If you continue to come up with nonsensical ramblings like I've just previously done, which are based in no logic or fact, then it's impossible to prove it wrong.
There is substantial scientific evidence that makes creationism and the idea of heaven, God, Jesus, angels etc. strongly defunct. However, anytime this evidence is given, people will simply change their pre-Middle-Aged beliefs and tweak it just enough to suit themselves. People believed the heaven existed above our heads; when we started to explore the skies and definitively saw nothing there, they tweaked their ideas to suit themselves. 'Oh, uh, heaven exists within us all'. Bullshit like that which is based on nothing more than ancient folklore.
As long as God cannot be proven, then He or anything related to him can also not be imposed on others. Moral beliefs stemming ultimately from 'Him' such as we shall not marry our cousin, we cannot be polygamous, in that respect should not be imposed until he's proven. That's why the burden of proof rests on the old decaying church and the millions of simpletons that follow the beat of it's deceptive lies.
You can't deny that moderate consumptions of alcohol provide comfort to people. However, alcohol abuse is avoided, just like abuse of religion, which is much more wide-spread than people tend to conservatively give credit for.
Can you not prove to me that un-baptised children don't go to hell? Something real, validated, not folklore or hearsay. You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/30 11:15
By: Dan69
Status:
You cannot prove that they do, so don't ask me to prove that they don't. Since it is science accusing religion of being entirely wrong, that would lay the burden of proof on the scientists.
If you were to read most of the books associated with religion, you would know that it is widely believed that the soul joins with the body at the first breath. Thus, a child who is miscarried or otherwise dies during the birthing process would never have joined body and soul.
This is a concept that appears in not only religious text, but also some fantasy novels as well. And while they are fiction, there is always at least a small bit of truth in every story that has been written. No those pants don't make your butt look big. It doesn't need any help looking big.
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Re:Religion
Date: 2008/04/30 15:38
By: Chrisfx
Status:
Can you not prove to me that un-baptised children don't go to hell? Something real, validated, not folklore or hearsay. Well it's just religion. Believe whatever the hell you wanna believe in. You can't prove that un-baptized children go to hell or go to heaven. In fact you can't guarantee that any person no matter if they're baptized or not will go to heaven or hell. You can't even prove that heaven or hell actually exists.
Gahhh...religion is so...vague. "एक बुदि्धमान लड़का अपने खो पैंट , एक जानकार लड़का अपने पैंट पर रखता ह" "A smart guy loses his pants, a wise one keeps his pants on."
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