Ok, first there is gay pride, then theres gay pride rallys....
What is up with this? I myself am a bisexual and i still dont get the point of why we need gay pride parades. All it does is cause tension between the straight and gay community, how often do you go into the city and see straight people marching for their pride? you dont. so why should we as gay people be alowed to throw our sexuality into peoples faces... this is where i think hate comes from. When you build a resistance... there will always be war. is that what we as a gay community want?...
GAY is a sexuality... not a race. and ok, fair enough... we get alot of shit out there in the world, but seriously people, look at the world of today in acceptance... and compare it with 20 years ago... things are alot better!
all we got to do as a gay community is put it on the education systems and government, dont blame the public or show off to the public... thats the problem... we need to get the point across to the governments and education systems so sexuality can be taught to next generation and the one after that... so soon enough people will become more acceptant.
Hate today usually depends on how your brought up and educated... and if people at young ages are taught to accept others for who they are and taught that sexuality is differnt with ALOT of people... the world of tomorrow will be much more accepting.
this here is only my opinion, please leave me yours... id like for this messege to be heard by all people so that its clear, that rallys, gay pride marches and resistance is only causing tension and more problems... sure u can be proud to be gay/bi/lesbian or transexual... but that pride should be a good self esteem thing that you keep to yourself.
what we got to do is work towards a better tomorrow in a more political way if this problem is to be sorted out. aussie-jaime
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Re:Gay pride or Gay ignorance?
Date: 2007/11/29 22:15
By: BravoLima
Status:
Damn, I've already replied to this on the blogmag thingy, so I'll resort to cheap imported humour.
Like the episode of the Simpsons with the Queer Pride Parade.
Queers: 'We're here, we're queer, get used to it' Lisa: 'You do this every year, we are used to it' You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Gay pride or Gay ignorance?
Date: 2007/11/30 06:45
By: Palachinov
Status:
Okay, this is what I wrote in another forum on Gay pride, in reply to someone else, so not all of it will be relevant to this thread, but most of it is (in italics):
we all can agree that being gay simply means that you like people of the same sex. it doesnt define anything such as personality traits, physical characteristics, personal opinions. and you have as much choice over it as your hair color. i myself am not gay..and not even bi...but im not straight. but hell i would love to fit nicely into a category..would make things easier..but i dont.
so the question or idea im posing is why do we push "gay pride" onto society as though they are something separate from it/us. as though being gay is the focal point of who we are. that it somehow defines us. does it really? no. i dont believe so. again just my personal opinion
I realise this is your opinion, and don't take this offensively, but I'm here to challenge it. Right, firstly, the LGBT community doesn't "push" Gay Pride onto society for the purpose of defining us as simply "gays". It is done to challenge the still very existent oppression of the LGBT community in today's society. Pride is an empowerment tool, and mostly it is a reactionary tool. However, if it is used by the oppressed sections of society, it highlights their plight, it highlights the fact that society still distinguishes them from the rest, and therefore by taking up pride in who you are, you are stating, "This is me, you may hate me for this, I can't change it, and so I don't give a fuck about what you think, I'm not willing to be oppressed by your bigoted reactionary views any longer." The same goes for other oppressed sections of society; ethnic minorities, women, disabled etc....
certainly ive never seen the "brown hair pride parade" or the "I'm 5'8" pride parade" And you never will unless brown haired people as well as 5'8" people begin to be an oppressed section of society.
why is that? because its not something that defines who we truly are. if it did we could make a statement like ALL people with brown hair are selfish or ALL 5'8" tall people are caring. the truth is those things aren't true. people come from all and have all types of different personalities. and this is just as true about being "gay" I'm afraid I didn't see the connection in that, Gay Pride doesn't impose a certain characteristic for those who attend to adhere to. I went to London Pride this year carrying a Trotskyist Fourth Internationalist flag while shouting slurs at the Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs that got up on stage. I didn't have to act camp, dance, be "caring", be "bitchy", or any other gay stereotype that day. The truth of the matter is, that is who you are! Unless you are going to turn around and tell me that you are not gay, bi, bi curious, transgender or whatever. If the majority of the oppressive group of society in the sexual orientated sense still choose to divide us between who's gay, and who's not, then I'm not going to take cover and hide who I am. I would shout it from the top of Canary Wharf if I was allowed and could be arsed, and I would not stop publishing the fact that I am gay until society finally stops looking down on us.
so back to my starting point. why take something that defines so little about who we are as a person, put it on display as though it is the only thing that unites us, and then shove it in the faces of people so that, eventually, someone shoves back. Dealt with this, but I'll say it again. Why do we shove it in their face? To show them that this is who we are, we won't change, we will no longer accept their oppression (although many in the LGBT community do ¬_¬), and we won't stop doing this until you accept us. Shove it back in my face if you want, I'll just continue to do it over and over and over again until you get the point.
i would like to be a part of the humanity parade. where we all recognize we are on the planet together, sharing it, and sharing eachother. celebrating our strengths of character as well as our special talents. if i had support from everyone on being human and being myself, i would fill little need for support from a small minority about being gay. and i think most of us can agree being gay is neither a talent nor a strength/weakness..it is nothing more then a label that identifies who you are attracted to There is nothing stopping you from doing that as well as attending a Gay Pride parade. I would love to do that, one of my favourite quotes is by Diogenes; "I am a citizen of the world". However, I'm also no idealist, and realise that some human beings are right wanks, and I'm not going to tolerate that.
Once again, this is just a plain debate, not here to offend you
...wrote that on the plexed forums. "Today Easter day of the Holy Year Here under the emblem of Notre-Dame of Paris we proclaim the death of the Christ-god, so that Man may live at last."
ANTIFA
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Re:Gay pride or Gay ignorance?
Date: 2007/11/30 07:14
By: BravoLima
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So, your basic plan of attack is to force people to accept you by simply being there in the way and further segregating 'straights' from 'gays' in the process?
Demonstrations can raise awareness, but I tend to agree with aussie_1990 that women, African-Americans etc. have only come so far due to education. Awareness is good, but it only goes so far.
I'm pretty sure most people in the world now know some guys like it hot You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Gay pride or Gay ignorance?
Date: 2007/12/01 02:56
By: ich_bin_gut
Status:
gay pride is as much awareness for straights as it is for the gay community
i'll maintain that without annual uprisings there can be no further progress made in the gay community
i mean, considering the stagnation of the gay rights movement, its been what, 20 years since aids and 30 years since stonewall, without pride marches people (gay people included) cant even be bothered with liberation or gay rights activism
the fact that you question pride marches is evidence itself that you understand the visibility of the gay community those that may feel a "rift" or become even more opposed to the gay rights movement as a result of pride marches are probably already against civil equality anyway, so why should it matter that we further alienate them from our cause
im not making much sense, but its world aids day today, and well, i'll start a new thread instead... myspace: www.myspace.com/wordsofseduction
if you do wish to "freind" me, SEND ME A PM FIRST so i know you aren't some stalking weirdo
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Re:Gay pride or Gay ignorance?
Date: 2007/12/02 06:17
By: C_Dude
Status:
Yer I can't say I've never found the concept of flaunting the gay sexuality odd... But looking into it...
Straighties have never flaunted their sexuality out in the streets like these parades do... But then again, much more subtle evidence of "flaunting" their sexuality is present in everyday life, in every aspect of our lives. Especially the media. And I think they march and deliberately scream outrageousness for the sake of liberation. It sends a message that kinda says... "Here is what I like, here is what we are, we'll show it to the world, we're shouting it out for all of you to see. Accept it." I think by doing this, they think they're making the sexuality more evident. And they aaaare...
Although such festivities CAN get lewd... inappropriate, perverted and downright disgusting other than just simply outrageous. Not to mention, imagine the effects of such a display would do to the minds of young children... Meh... It's done to do SOMETHING. There are a lot of examples of events around the world and history in itself that people mightn't agree with... but the truth is, good or bad, encouraged or prevented, it all moves us somewhere... It keeps us mobile. It might not be appreciated by the all cultures, even some of the gay culture itself, and FUCK i gotta say, sometimes i question whether i'd WANNA still be gay seeing what these guys are making us all out to be, but you know... It's... something... that just... happens. People will love it, some will hate. It's all just action. Motion. Everyone's got a different opinion on it... Though I'm not all too crazy about waving your bulging pink-feathered underwear out on the street, usually I'd just be like... Man... Isn't there any other better ways? But in the end it's just... Meh... There's SOME kinda progress for yaaa... "Keep it simple buds." --Carlooo! ツ
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Re:Gay pride or Gay ignorance?
Date: 2007/12/02 16:43
By: GNR7600
Status:
C-Dude makes out a couple good points. I myself feel that the gay community and their marches can be overwhelming in yes their pink feathered underwear. You don't see straight people doing that, however straight people do send their messages out, that well they're straight. Straight people definitely send messages through the media that straight is the way to be.
Tell me anyone honestly in their community or whatever, when is the last time you have seen a TV commercial advertising their community with some type of homosexual bacground. Through any type of advertisement or promotional aid, there is always some straight way of supporting it. It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees ( Ibarurri 1895)
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Re:Gay pride or Gay ignorance?
Date: 2007/12/03 01:31
By: Palachinov
Status:
BravoLima wrote: So, your basic plan of attack is to force people to accept you by simply being there in the way and further segregating 'straights' from 'gays' in the process? No, we're not forcing anything on anybody. Gay pride is a fun day, as well as a show of pride. What, are we going to ban carnivals now because they try and "force" acceptance of the Afro-Carribean/South American culture on the British people? No, thats ridiculous. We aren't segregating heterosexuals either, they may come and join us and celebrate the fact that we rarely ever have to hide what we are.
Demonstrations can raise awareness, but I tend to agree with aussie_1990 that women, African-Americans etc. have only come so far due to education. Awareness is good, but it only goes so far. Due to education? You've got to be kidding me, and who kick started the education? It certainly wasn't men, or white people. It was the voices of the oppressed that got the oppressing population to listen. And still look, black people are still discriminated (and other ethnic minorities I should say), women are still looked down upon (take Britain for example, and the chauvinistic Yorkie bar adverts; "Only for men"...sure its a joke, but its still socially oppressive).
I'm pretty sure most people in the world now know some guys like it hot I think everyone in the world does, but I don't care, its whether they accept it or not, thats the main issue here. "Today Easter day of the Holy Year Here under the emblem of Notre-Dame of Paris we proclaim the death of the Christ-god, so that Man may live at last."
ANTIFA
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Re:Gay pride or Gay ignorance?
Date: 2007/12/03 01:34
By: Palachinov
Status:
Also I think we should try and get away from this whole Victorian Moralism which is still present in our society. The whole, "omg, is that man wearing a pink flamingo dress and SHOWING HIS LEGS!?!?" thing. I doubt its at all damaging to children, unless of course, by damaging, we mean to say it highlights the fact that there are gay people in this world. "Today Easter day of the Holy Year Here under the emblem of Notre-Dame of Paris we proclaim the death of the Christ-god, so that Man may live at last."
ANTIFA
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Re:Gay pride or Gay ignorance?
Date: 2007/12/03 04:26
By: BravoLima
Status:
Palachinov wrote:
we won't stop doing this until you accept us. Shove it back in my face if you want, I'll just continue to do it over and over and over again until you get the point. [quote/]
You're basically saying here that you'll proverbially knock their heads in the brick wall of your sexuality until they yield.
I've never even mentioned banning anyone from anything, it goes against my libertarian nature .
Due to education? You've got to be kidding me, and who kick started the education?[quote/]
No, I'm dead serious. I never said it was men or white people that kick started the education, you chose to run along that tangent yourself. Feminists only get so far by not shaving their armpits, PETA only get so far, greenpeace only get so far by physical protests.
Black people didn't get to where they are now by annually protesting that they're still treated sub-average.
And still look, black people are still discriminated (and other ethnic minorities I should say[quote/]
Rarely, at least in 'developed' countries. Unless if you're talking about nasty comments or the occasional hate crime, which annual protests or mardi gras would have little impact on this. To the contrary, many governments and institutions are so sensitive toward ethnic minorities that the majority get discriminated against, speaking of Australia seeing as that's my nationality, there are many many freebies handed out to Aboriginals of any economic situation due to the simple fact that they're Aboriginal. In cases university or TAFE course positions especially will be given preferentially to Aboriginals. I'm not saying this is necessarily wrong, who knows, but it is happening.
I think everyone in the world does, but I don't care, its whether they accept it or not, thats the main issue here.[quote/]
Argh you damn commie! LOL j/k
You can't make people accept anything, particularly by having the occasional parade, even by shouting slurs at MPS that seem to be trying to make a speech.
I'm noone to impose my will on Mardi Gras, I think people will vote with their feet if they're objectionable etc. , but I don't think they're very fruitful at this stage, at least not beyond a bit of fun.
Who said anything about Victorian Moralism? I doubt the people on this thread believe that flashing a bit of leg (whilst being a bit of a turn off? Men in dresses? Puh-lease ) is damaging children, and if they do they certainly haven't expressed it. You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Gay pride or Gay ignorance?
Date: 2007/12/04 02:50
By: Palachinov
Status:
Waaagh!!! You made the quote boxing all funny and weird.
BravoLima wrote: You're basically saying here that you'll proverbially knock their heads in the brick wall of your sexuality until they yield. Indeed, this wouldn't be the only method though. Just because I defend the basis on which gay pride is built up on, doesn't mean I disagree with other methods which can help with gay emancipation.
No, I'm dead serious. I never said it was men or white people that kick started the education, you chose to run along that tangent yourself. Feminists only get so far by not shaving their armpits, PETA only get so far, greenpeace only get so far by physical protests.
Black people didn't get to where they are now by annually protesting that they're still treated sub-average. They clearly did, especially with the Black Liberation movements in the USA, the Black Panthers for example, and to some degree, Martin Luther King's civil rights movement also. And the black community in America is still very socially and economically oppressed, why is there little being done about it? Because many in the black community take it for granted that everyone else have been "educated" about their oppression, and therefore they will not suffer from it any longer.
Black and Gay activism needs to be revived in the USA, as well as many other advanced "white" Western countries.
