Is it a long video? I can't be bothered if it lasts for more than 10 minutes... My eyes'll get all watery...
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Re:C.M.L.P
Date: 2007/03/26 10:23
By: borto
Status:
I've read extensively about the various 9/11 conspiracy theories, and from what I've seen so far, none of the evidence provided by the conspiracy theorists is the least bit convincing. Documentaries like this one, Loose Change, and others are usually full of shoddy scholarship, bad science, or just downright intellectual dishonesty.
Popular Mechanics has an extensive debunking of many of the most common conspiratorial claims. It is by no means complete, however -- conspiracy theories are notourously hard to debunk, since it's extremely easy for those who perpetuate them to simply make a claim... The hard part is showing how/why it is wrong.
Most conspiracy theories like this can be debunked on practical/statistical grounds, anyway. As the conspiracy grows ever larger, more and more people become involved, and it eventually collapses under it's own weight. By this I mean the amount of people that would have to be involved in such a massive coverup is so great that the odds against someone coming forward become extremely small.
There's also the issue of the government's inherent incompetance when it comes to, well... EVERYTHING... If the whitehouse couldn't keep a blowjob in the oval office a secret, they fucking can't do shit.
Post edited by: borto, at: 2007/03/26 10:23
For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love. Carl Sagan
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Re:C.M.L.P
Date: 2007/03/26 14:04
By: chemical_flare
Status:
borto wrote: I've read extensively about the various 9/11 conspiracy theories, and from what I've seen so far, none of the evidence provided by the conspiracy theorists is the least bit convincing. Documentaries like this one, Loose Change, and others are usually full of shoddy scholarship, bad science, or just downright intellectual dishonesty.
Popular Mechanics has an extensive debunking of many of the most common conspiratorial claims. It is by no means complete, however -- conspiracy theories are notourously hard to debunk, since it's extremely easy for those who perpetuate them to simply make a claim... The hard part is showing how/why it is wrong.
Most conspiracy theories like this can be debunked on practical/statistical grounds, anyway. As the conspiracy grows ever larger, more and more people become involved, and it eventually collapses under it's own weight. By this I mean the amount of people that would have to be involved in such a massive coverup is so great that the odds against someone coming forward become extremely small.
There's also the issue of the government's inherent incompetance when it comes to, well... EVERYTHING... If the whitehouse couldn't keep a blowjob in the oval office a secret, they fucking can't do shit. <br /><br />Post edited by: borto, at: 2007/03/26 10:23 Yeah!!1 I completely agree! I can not tell you how frustrated I get with those idiots who watch loose change and al lthe sudden think Bush is out to get them and Osama is under the CIA's pay roll...I get frustrated just thinking about it lol...all the evidence you give people who believe that is not enough....
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Re:C.M.L.P
Date: 2007/03/27 09:30
By: theoneandonly
Status:
It makes me happy to see this post still goingDerrick!
~Forums and Chat Moderator~
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Re:C.M.L.P
Date: 2007/03/27 09:40
By: Gumdropster
Status:
I think that most conspiracy theories are full of flawed logic. That said, some are also true. What most people don't understand is that if all the things that come up in Loose Change were to be true, Loose Change itself would never have been able to be released.
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Re:C.M.L.P
Date: 2007/03/27 13:20
By: FlameRiot
Status:
Sorry I haven't been around, yesterday my Internet was down xD!!
Actually, Mr. Borto and Mr. Chemical flare, by any chance did you saw the whole video?, I understand your sight point, because everybody have a different sight point, now I personally like this video, you talk about bad science, intellectual dishonesty, you talk about practical/statistical proof, but proof is what this video step by step have, if I were to defend this video, I would not care much cause I didn’t made it. Maybe you knew that news are really manipulated anyway they want by corporations, governments, and other power figures, maybe you knew that ‘’Bush’’ Family are the best friends of Bin Laden Family in the Mid-east, maybe you Knew that Bin Laden Family are one of the biggest constructors of Mid-east (talk about destruction in this past years because of this war uh? Who is going to build everything up Paid by the government? LOL =P), oh yeah, maybe you knew that the only Private Airplane that was able to go out of the country exactly the same time that everything happen was nothing less than Bin Laden Family members who used to reside in here USA, maybe you knew that what hit the pentagon wasn’t an airplane, and that videos taken near The Pentagon from Gas stations, people who had a Camera in that moment, all of those videos were taken by C.I.A after that happened and never showed to the public, in fact the same people never saw an Airplane, and of course it was impossible for an Airplane to go so low and actually do the damage that was done to the Pentagon, maybe you know a lot of things, maybe I’m ignorant who believes Downright Intellectual Dishonesty information like this, actually a shame cause I don’t like to follow anybody ideas, I like to seek my own truth.
Something else, please even if the video is long, look at it before posting your ideas, or at least talk about it so we could discuss instead of just dumping it to the garbage like if this is just nothing in front of your sight point, because this is a forum to discuss, not to just step in the ideas, thank you.
Osama is not under C.I.A pay roll, is actually just another pawn just like Bush, they are the faces who take all the weight of the situations while the ones behind who I would call ‘’shadows’’ don’t take any fall.
‘’Try to rise yourself into evolution, and those who believe they are God’s, will attack you with great Fury feed by Greed and Envy of who you could became’’
‘’Is not about what you already know, is about what you don’t know and what you could learn’’
I read a story of a Chinese Philosopher who was visited by a Western University professor, the professor wanted to learn from him, the Philosopher then offer him a cup of Tea, the professor agreed, he started to fill up the Cup and the Tea went over the cup, The professor got alarmed because of this and ask him what he was doing, the Philosopher told him ‘’you come to learn from me with all the knowledge’s you already have, how can I teach you if your mind is like this cup, which cannot hold anymore Tea’’
Actually the original story I have it somewhere, when I find it I post it again xD!!! ~~G~~
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Re:C.M.L.P
Date: 2007/03/27 16:50
By: borto
Status:
FlameRiot wrote: Sorry I haven't been around, yesterday my Internet was down xD!!
Actually, Mr. Borto and Mr. Chemical flare, by any chance did you saw the whole video?, The video is a bit long for me to watch the whole thing, as I'm pretty busy this week. If you read my post carefully, you will see that I do not specifically address any claims made in it, since I haven't actually seen it.
I was simply making the point that the evidence I've heard so far from the conspiracy-mongers is incredibly unconvincing.
I understand your sight point, because everybody have a different sight point, now I personally like this video, you talk about bad science, intellectual dishonesty, you talk about practical/statistical proof, but proof is what this video step by step have, if I were to defend this video, I would not care much cause I didn’t made it. Maybe you knew that news are really manipulated anyway they want by corporations, governments, and other power figures, maybe you knew that ‘’Bush’’ Family are the best friends of Bin Laden Family in the Mid-east, maybe you Knew that Bin Laden Family are one of the biggest constructors of Mid-east (talk about destruction in this past years because of this war uh? Who is going to build everything up Paid by the government? LOL =P), oh yeah, maybe you knew that the only Private Airplane that was able to go out of the country exactly the same time that everything happen was nothing less than Bin Laden Family members who used to reside in here USA, This is all (as far as I know) true, and I don't have a problem believing any of it.
maybe you knew that what hit the pentagon wasn’t an airplane, and that videos taken near The Pentagon from Gas stations, people who had a Camera in that moment, all of those videos were taken by C.I.A after that happened and never showed to the public, in fact the same people never saw an Airplane, Rather than go into details, how about I just show you this picture:
There were debris from an American Airlines jet found all over the place. The logo is clearly visible on the piece of aluminum in this picture.
and of course it was impossible for an Airplane to go so low and actually do the damage that was done to the Pentagon, Actually, most of the claims I've heard regarding this are that there wasn't enough damage done. The most common one I've seen is that the hole where the plane impacted the side of the pentagon was too small to be a 757, a claim which is discussed in detail in the article I linked to earlier. There are also similar claims made about the blast-proof windows, etc. (all addressed in the article).
maybe you know a lot of things, maybe I’m ignorant who believes Downright Intellectual Dishonesty information like this, actually a shame cause I don’t like to follow anybody ideas, I like to seek my own truth. As do I. I'm a skeptic, which means I seek the truth no matter where it leads me. Being a skeptic means that I demand to be convinced -- with evidence. As I have said already, none of the evidence I've heard so far is any good.
For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love. Carl Sagan
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Re:C.M.L.P
Date: 2007/03/27 17:15
By: DrZoidberg87
Status:
Heres a tip: Any time you see the words "Conspiracy Theory," replace "Conspiracy" with "Bull" and "Theory" with "Shit." You'll have an easier time deciphering..
The 9/11 "Conspiracy" is no different than: The Roswell UFO Crash, Kurt Cobain Murder Theory, or Michael Jackson is really an alien sent from Mars to collect intelligence and prepare for an invasion and plan to steal the earths oceans.
None of these people in the video mentioned are credible. None of the evidence presented is credible... The melting point of steel... excellent argument except for the fact that steel doesn't need to melt in order for its integrity to be compromised. This is about as compelling as Big Foot. Completely bunk and a waste of everyones time.. It's insulting to my intelligence and should be to yours as well.
Cheers.
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Re:C.M.L.P
Date: 2007/03/27 17:19
By: FlameRiot
Status:
Good Evening.
Very well, fair enough, as a skeptic you seek the same as me, truth, is good to know people still find the fashion alive, of finding their own truth, it was very nice this sharing of information, as far as I’m concerned, a lot of real details will never be reveal to the eyes and ears of people, the ones behind all this will hide it at all cost, the only thing that can be done is keep on living and seeking the means for at least, a fair truth. ~~G~~
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Re:C.M.L.P
Date: 2007/03/27 17:37
By: FlameRiot
Status:
Yeah sure Dr.Zuidberg87, maybe life as it is, is in fact just B U L L S H I T =P
Who knows right?~~G~~
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Re:C.M.L.P
Date: 2007/03/27 19:30
By: chemical_flare
Status:
I was thinking maybe me and a few others would make a video methodically discounting everything in loose change.
Anyone on board? I'll take care of the technical video portion (I love filming) but I'd need help getting all the clips, we'll need a team of people. I currently have the time for it, but during the summer I will have absolutely no time for this.
We'd call the video "Gathered Change" maybe? the name should be two syllables total though, and should mock "Loose Change", "Gathered Change" sounds dumb. But hell, so does "Loose Change".
the team would probably look like this:
1. Fact gatherer group - Gathers facts and explanations, and will methodically discount all of the different points brought up in Loose Change.
2. Video Speaker - I can't remember the technical term for the life of me, but this person will speak off the script given to him/her. Must have a microphone.
3. Picture and Media gatherer - Must be skilled with google image search, and understand basic computer media files (what resolution and quality of videos are) and be able to find good videos for use in the documentary.
4. Script Writers - If one of you is informed enough to be able to write the script and basically understand the video, then you can take the burden off my hands and write the script for the video.
Everyone on the team will be able to help write the video and have their say in what goes in it, we will plan it using a password protected forum.
I'll make us a website and forum, but before the video is released, this must remain completely secret once the team is assembled, so that when we release the makers of loose change wont expect it.
Post edited by: chemical_flare, at: 2007/03/27 19:32
Post edited by: chemical_flare, at: 2007/03/27 19:33
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