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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/13 08:13
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By: Steely Dan
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then why not just skip to the heaven part for everyone?
P.S.
I said basically "God would be evil because there's evil which he could stop but won't"
You said "God is not evil because they are human evils"
Then I said "God didn't have to make evil people, and even if evil were nessesary it doesn't need to be taken to the extremes it is."
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/13 13:02
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By: the_crampo
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Steely Dan wrote:
Then I said "God didn't have to make evil people, and even if evil were nessesary it doesn't need to be taken to the extremes it is."
When are you going to make a point? Have you actually ever made an argument? Can you respond properly instead of posting this pointless tidbits of god knows what?
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/14 03:43
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By: BravoLima
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'An eternity of happiness puts a sock in your argument.'
Unbaptised babies don't go to heaven. They go to hell. An eternity of rot, fire, inferno.
If there was a God, he would be sued for gross negligence.
'You dont need to, because you think you know everything.'
That's okay, you're equally arogant. We should get hitched.
You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/14 04:48
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By: Dan69
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BravoLima wrote:
'An eternity of happiness puts a sock in your argument.'
Unbaptised babies don't go to heaven. They go to hell. An eternity of rot, fire, inferno.
If there was a God, he would be sued for gross negligence.
Actually Bravo, according to scripture, a child who dies before the age of choice (which, for being baptized is eight) Automatically goes to heaven. Have you even read these things? Or do you just blindy lash out at anything that you can with no prior knowlege of it?
No those pants don't make your butt look big. It doesn't need any help looking big.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/14 07:40
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By: the_crampo
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Thank you Dan69.
Bravo, I have actually agreed with you on a few small things. I am not unbending, its just we have such polarized views that we both appear arrogant to each other I suppose.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/15 03:24
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By: BravoLima
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'Actually Bravo, according to scripture, a child who dies before the age of choice (which, for being baptized is eight) Automatically goes to heaven. Have you even read these things? Or do you just blindy lash out at anything that you can with no prior knowlege of it?'
According to scripture? If there is no contradiction with the scriptures, I'll eat my own hat. I'm not the only one who's heard that non-baptised children don't go to heaven. Thus, the inconsistency of story-telling.
Besides, my original point was in response to cramps talking about how God should stay out of our business, and that the pictures that Steely Dan showed was because of mankind's fault, not the gross negligence of this fictional God. Maybe I jumped the gun, but what he mentioned was rife in the bad smell of the notion that God puts us here to learn lessons. That's why I mentioned the baby dying. What lesson was learnt. It's all bullshit. The baby gets no chance to live and become what he/she will in heaven. According to your precious scripture, the baby would for all eternity be just a baby, even if it went to heaven.
And I hardly think scripture is proof that that baby doesn't go to hell.
You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/21 06:32
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By: Dan69
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According to what I have read, the reason the babies die so soon, (if you want to go into just the religious aspect of it) is because they have nothing they need to learn by coming here, and that all they need is a physical body.
Myself, I don't believe that, but in order to stay on topic with your argument I had to point it out.
I think, that if there really is a divine entity, and it had a reason for that to happen, it would be that the child's soul was never sent to the body, and that the parents were the ones who were supposed to learn something. But, more likely, there is no reason for it happening, and if there is a divine entity out there who is letting it happen, it would still be a question of free will VS. intervention. In some cases, things could have been done by doctors to save the life, or proper care would have kept that life from being in danger in the first place.
No one created evil people, whether you believe in god or not, you should realize that everyone has a choice on how they will act. Even someone who has a mental disability chooses how to act on some level.
No those pants don't make your butt look big. It doesn't need any help looking big.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/25 01:43
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By: BravoLima
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No one created evil people? Didn't God create us all?
Can I see a peer reviewed study outlining cases where children have been born without a soul compared to children that have been born with a soul?
Didn't think so.
You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/28 06:03
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By: Dan69
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Can you provide evidence against what I said? No, you can't. It's all speculation on either side.
Don't ask for something you cannot provide for your own arguements Bravo.
Scientists can't prove, or disprove the existance of a god. And neither can you. No one can. That is why it is called faith.
Furthermore, whether religion is true or not, you can't deny that it does give some measure of comfort to people. Not to mention the fact that even though there are a few that take things too far, religion has done good for the people here.
No those pants don't make your butt look big. It doesn't need any help looking big.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/29 03:45
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By: BravoLima
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Evidence against what you said? Ooh, got me there.
God is a woman, she likes to three-way with Mexican pornstars, drink cherry soda on Saturdays, absolutely hates queers, to the point she wants all of them dead, she just couldn't be bothered. She likes playing computer games and guys with hazel eyes.
If you continue to come up with nonsensical ramblings like I've just previously done, which are based in no logic or fact, then it's impossible to prove it wrong.
There is substantial scientific evidence that makes creationism and the idea of heaven, God, Jesus, angels etc. strongly defunct. However, anytime this evidence is given, people will simply change their pre-Middle-Aged beliefs and tweak it just enough to suit themselves. People believed the heaven existed above our heads; when we started to explore the skies and definitively saw nothing there, they tweaked their ideas to suit themselves. 'Oh, uh, heaven exists within us all'. Bullshit like that which is based on nothing more than ancient folklore.
As long as God cannot be proven, then He or anything related to him can also not be imposed on others. Moral beliefs stemming ultimately from 'Him' such as we shall not marry our cousin, we cannot be polygamous, in that respect should not be imposed until he's proven. That's why the burden of proof rests on the old decaying church and the millions of simpletons that follow the beat of it's deceptive lies.
You can't deny that moderate consumptions of alcohol provide comfort to people. However, alcohol abuse is avoided, just like abuse of religion, which is much more wide-spread than people tend to conservatively give credit for.
Can you not prove to me that un-baptised children don't go to hell? Something real, validated, not folklore or hearsay.
You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/30 11:15
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By: Dan69
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You cannot prove that they do, so don't ask me to prove that they don't. Since it is science accusing religion of being entirely wrong, that would lay the burden of proof on the scientists.
If you were to read most of the books associated with religion, you would know that it is widely believed that the soul joins with the body at the first breath. Thus, a child who is miscarried or otherwise dies during the birthing process would never have joined body and soul.
This is a concept that appears in not only religious text, but also some fantasy novels as well. And while they are fiction, there is always at least a small bit of truth in every story that has been written.
No those pants don't make your butt look big. It doesn't need any help looking big.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/04/30 15:38
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By: Chrisfx
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Can you not prove to me that un-baptised children don't go to hell? Something real, validated, not folklore or hearsay.
Well it's just religion.
Believe whatever the hell you wanna believe in.
You can't prove that un-baptized children go to hell or go to heaven.
In fact you can't guarantee that any person no matter if they're baptized or not will go to heaven or hell.
You can't even prove that heaven or hell actually exists.
Gahhh...religion is so...vague.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/05/02 04:01
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By: BravoLima
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Indeed; you can't prove that what you said was correct. Therefore you cannot prove that God treats us all as equals, you can't prove that God values the lives of babies, you cannot prove that God doesn't hate gays, you cannot prove that God dislikes Muslims.
When you deal in fairytales, you can't prove a damn thing.
So therefore, you cannot reply to my question about babies dying being unfair with the notion that they don't receive souls because it's unproven. Your response would be meaningless.
Oh how the Church has succeeded in building a circular framework of illogic.
You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/05/02 16:46
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By: Dan69
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For a man who puts so much faith in science and logic, you sure don't seem to have a lot of it yourself. You can't even see the point I have been trying to make, though I'm sure anyone else who has read this could.
My point was not whether religion is real or not. The things I said were, I guess, set up to do the impossible. Get you to think about someone else's opinions instead of your own for once.
If you'd read the stories in the bible or any other religious text, and knew how to read between the lines, you'd know that most religions are actually set up around a logical progression which is based on, and evolved from, what little humans knew about the world way back when they first started it. Whether it was divinely inspired or not is irrelevant.
Another point of interest, science didn't start proving anything about religion wrong until the scientists involved actually made it a goal to prove it wrong. And along the way, they have found things that science cannot explain. There are still many things we humans don't know just on our planet, let alone the space beyond it.
No those pants don't make your butt look big. It doesn't need any help looking big.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/05/06 04:33
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By: BravoLima
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'For a man who puts so much faith in science and logic, you sure don't seem to have a lot of it yourself. You can't even see the point I have been trying to make, though I'm sure anyone else who has read this could.
My point was not whether religion is real or not. The things I said were, I guess, set up to do the impossible. Get you to think about someone else's opinions instead of your own for once.'
Enough rhetoric, I can only repeat what I said, which I won't do. Re-read my last post.
'If you'd read the stories in the bible or any other religious text, and knew how to read between the lines, you'd know that most religions are actually set up around a logical progression which is based on, and evolved from, what little humans knew about the world way back when they first started it.'
Really, like Genesis? You follow the words of poorly educated people who lived nearly 2000 years ago. And you read them for logic? Maybe it's time to change the reading material.
'Another point of interest, science didn't start proving anything about religion wrong until the scientists involved actually made it a goal to prove it wrong.'
No, that's not a point of interest. Science started proving religion wrong when Galileo found the earth revolves around the sun and the Church vehemently opposed him. He never intended to prove religion wrong, he simply wanted to present the facts. When science began to find that light needs to have some energy source, it discredited the creation story, and that's just a few of many many examples.
'There are still many things we humans don't know just on our planet, let alone the space beyond it.'
Precisely, and only science will one day discover these things. Believing in ancient folk-lore will only keep our minds back in ancient times.
I ask for logic and reasoning, and all you provide me is excuses and circular logic that 'you can't prove this' (all the while making sure what you're saying is inherently unprovable). I can give you evidence of science and of it's findings, and you'll never have proof of your deluded ideas such as perhaps some children are born without souls so that it's not so cruel when God let's them die.
You might keep yourself convinced with your circle of lies and obvious mistruths, but the rest of us, or at least most of us at least can see through your spiral of rhetoric.
You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/05/06 12:18
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By: Dan69
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Clearly you are incabable of seeing another's point of view. So I'm not going to waste my time on you any more. Rest assured that if I see any further posts from you that are obviously intended to insult or belittle any member of this board. I will report it to the moderators. And I hope that they will do the right thing and ban you from the board when that time comes.
No those pants don't make your butt look big. It doesn't need any help looking big.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/05/10 02:40
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By: BravoLima
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Clearly you are equally incapable of seeing another's view.
Someone only appears stubborn if you yourself are as well.
Have my posts been to belittle or insult you? No. They have been to provide my opinion; if they've upset you in the meantime, go blow, I don't give a shit.
You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/05/14 18:40
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By: DebateKid91
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Wow, Bravo I like your style of thinking. You do what Christ did, you try to make people think. If I might try to answear your baby question with MY opinion, I would say that yes, God is not fair, she has let much hurt fall on me. But, I do believe that God, if he exists, is an intelligent being and has a purpose for what does happen and a plan on how to deal with it. Do they go to Hell, or Heaven? Is the hell them knowing that they never got to 'live'? Ah questions. I would love to disscuse more on religion and the whole "God hates homosexuals" thing with you some time. Talk to you later, and keep questioning, I think that is the point of life.
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Re:Religion
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Date: 2008/05/19 04:00
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By: BravoLima
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Can you show me some data or verifiable evidence of this God and a statement in which he gives details of his planning? No? Then enough rhetoric.
I make believe that my God kicked your God's arse. Then I became your God. Is that any less rediculous than people merely making sudden claims and loopholes when Steely Dan and I point out flaws in this supposed God's methodology? Give me something tangible or admit that you have nothing to argue with, or about. I'm sick of running in illogical circles to try to show religious zealots the obvious notion that no assertion can accurately be made from just 'making shit up'.
If I tried to assert that African-American women on average got herpes more than other populations, by 'Christ' I'd have to provide some bloody proof or at least some reasoning. No proof, no reason, no assertion.
You should always respect one's religious beliefs, however imaginary friends, delusional behaviour, a belief in a two thousand year old folk-lore should be treated by a professional.
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