As far as translation goes. I think that may be an issue that we have overlooked. I think that some people have used the bible and translations of it in order to push their own agendas. Even in untampered with passages, the way it interpreted that influences people. I've studied the bible very closely to find a passage that says that homosexuality is wrong. It's not there. A passage that specifically strikes down masturbation, it does not exist. And it has been debated, mostly in class, the true meanings of these passages, and further more the books themselves. Furthermore in the case of marriages, is there not supposed to be a seperation of church and state, that would make a majority of claims against same-sex marriage invalid.
Back to translation. I also do not understand how anybody can truly say what Christ believes and if we want to reference the books, we have to first consider that although the books are based on the teachings, a teaching that I follow, they are slightly archaic. And many things have changed... If we want to have a relationship with God in the present, we have to live in the present.
That's what I believe and I'm fine with it.

i like how you think. i've never actually cared enough to go look in the bible for those things...i do have a rather funny thing to say, though. before i say it, id like to make it very clear that i do not believe in god or my religion, but i find it extremely laughable how these ardent catholics and such insist that god created man "in his own likeness", so if that's true, why did god "create" homosexuals?? apparently god created humans...and unless these idiot religious freaks suddenly deem gay people "aliens", then they fall into the category of man...all of whom are apparently created in the likeness of a god who "condemns" such **behavior**...

that is a typical arguement i would raise against some crazy bible-thumper.

I like that argument, it's an intelligent approach to tell people that say that there's something wrong with me to kiss my @ss, I think that is something worth considering.
Wow, that is really good. While I search for a way to continue in this argument with some debating "friends" of mine, I'd like to thank you.
That's it...for real

wow. thats a question worth pondering. Personally in my opinion, not to bash anyone here, I think that religion is just a brainwashing idea to get people to give churchs more money and power. Also THe biggest brainwasher of all is in my opinion, sorry if you are, Catholic. They have a Pope that can only talk to what they call "GOD". Im sorry to any and all catholics in this website but its true. If you people really want to talk to GOD do it yourself. As for me, I dont have a religion and was once a pentacostal christian.

I dont really know what to say about this very increasingly popular topic lol
I, myself, was baptized a Catholic and up until the age of about 10 or 11 I went to church every sunday. My mum is a catholic and all her family was brought up in the same way. My dad being from Hong Kong doesn't particularly have a religion and hasn't had one imposed on him in any way.
As I got older everything just seemed to fade. I don't think as a kid I actually bought into any of it, either that or I was too busy drawing on the weekly newsletter to bother listening. I've become pretty skeptic of it all and don't really follow a religion of any sort at all. I mean I've gone to Catholic schools and things but I'm just not a believer.
I don't feel any contempt towards anybody of a religion I just think when it seems to consume them and things get a little crazy it's time to put THAT book away... and when they try to start 'sell it to me' - screw it! Put those leaflets away, if I want divine aid I'll come looking for it.
One more funny thing I've just notcied: take my mother's side 'the catholics', the Brundish family is so f*ed up its untrue! Alcoholics, suicides, arguements that have split the family right down the centre; then take my dad's side, the 'non-imposing atheists' and they're living happy as bunnies , 'family' being one of the strongest things holding them together. Not religion.
Just a thought

I plan to read the Stranger and the da Vinci Code, and until then I cannot comment on the books. But I have to express disgust for what my religion is becoming. I have no life and so from time to time I find myself watching infomercials. I was watching one of those miracle shows and one of those miracle water things. And those are such a scam, and for someone who claims to be religious, that should make them feel so freaking unclean. I guess I really shouldn't care though because the only people who buy the crap are trailer trash and old black people. But they have souls too, I guess. My mother is also fighting the principles of the church, but for reasons different than my own. I haven't been to an organized mass since Easter...no I skipped that one, Christmas. I used to be so religious, but our youth group manger was so holier than thou, that i punched him out and cussed him out and haven't been back to that state since. We either need a religious reform or we just need to screw it all together, because this sh*t makes no freakin' sense, oh my gah, if not for the love of my family and my wish not to be assassinated I might have given a little sermon of my own denouncing the common man and his ways and the way outrageous expectations and political biases sicken me. Instead my last sermon as a junior pastor was about Moses, and people caught my drift.
Thank you everyone, I don't think I can ever go back to the church, at least not until I have the answers to all those questions. Who knows it might be better that way. That's it until I read those books and make a decision.
Wow, I suck

yoyoyo guys, i'm something of a forum virgin but seeing as i have far too much spare time i thought i'd chip in with some wise (ha) words....
i personally see no redeeming factors in religion, and its basically just something to make people feel a little less depressed about their pointless little lives. of course us enlightened ones (mainly in the uk where religion is dying, no offence to u american ppl (dont envy you)) dont need religion.
if you want something to turn you into an atheist, read the stranger by camus, tis wwwwwell good (say in a chav accent for full effect).
also i dont see how anyone could trust a 2000 yr old book of propaganda, although i also dont agree with the da vinci code, but even so......
anyway, since i have an empty inbox, feel free to msg me to make me feel a little more popular

wow. After reading everyones opinion, including my own, I saw that we are all right in our opinions. All of our opinions together sum up that religion is a way to brainwash people through fear and power. And after being a christian for so long, I got tired of the lies, greed, and hypocrytes in the church. If the people actually lived by their religions, people would have a better chance of understanding topics like homosexuality. And As much as I have read the bible, I have never once seen anything on Homosexuality and if you were you would go to hell. That my friends is the biggest lie in the world today. A perfect example would be Spongebob Squarepants. The catholic religion has come out to say that hes Gay. Well to the dissapointment of the catholics, he never was and never will be because hes asexual. Which means A) doesnt have any kind of seual desire AND doesnt have sex organs. EVEN THE GREATOR HIMSELF SAID THAT SPONGEBOB was asexual. Theres your perfect example of brainwashing and religion.

any time. i cant stand my religion. or homophobes.

Astrogemini wrote:

QUOTE:
I plan to read the Stranger and the da Vinci Code, and until then I cannot comment on the books. But I have to express disgust for what my religion is becoming. I have no life and so from time to time I find myself watching infomercials. I was watching one of those miracle shows and one of those miracle water things. And those are such a scam, and for someone who claims to be religious, that should make them feel so freaking unclean. I guess I really shouldn't care though because the only people who buy the crap are trailer trash and old black people. But they have souls too, I guess. My mother is also fighting the principles of the church, but for reasons different than my own. I haven't been to an organized mass since Easter...no I skipped that one, Christmas. I used to be so religious, but our youth group manger was so holier than thou, that i punched him out and cussed him out and haven't been back to that state since. We either need a religious reform or we just need to screw it all together, because this sh*t makes no freakin' sense, oh my gah, if not for the love of my family and my wish not to be assassinated I might have given a little sermon of my own denouncing the common man and his ways and the way outrageous expectations and political biases sicken me. Instead my last sermon as a junior pastor was about Moses, and people caught my drift.
Thank you everyone, I don't think I can ever go back to the church, at least not until I have the answers to all those questions. Who knows it might be better that way. That's it until I read those books and make a decision.
Wow, I suck :laugh:

I meant Noah, not Moses, my bad. I really do suck