you are all complete hypocrites
u flare up when people try to take away (or i suppose refuse to give) gay peoples rights
yet you try to deprive Christians basic rights: like passing their beliefs on to their children
seriously if something bad happened to you when u were a kid and u think its religions fault (gay bashing? teasing?) just build a bridge! Be the bigger person!
The world is bigger than your opinions

The world is in a terrible way and I think we ALL know Christians aren't exactly making it a whole lot worse (I'm referring to pentecostal Christians anyway...) so stop making religion a scapegoat for any gay-hate you have received as tons of people are anti-gay and also non-religous!
Errr people frustrate me.

Just read some other peoples posts: ERRR again! You are all so impractical!<br /><br />Post edited by: Sxcriley, at: 2007/10/07 23:07

but you're basing the idea of religion damaging a child off the preconception that religion is bad. religion can also teach young children about important issues such as compassion, hope, justice and generosity - things that we as a society seem to lack.

Yes religion can teach kids about compassion, but only compassion to the people that fit into this little box of what we deem acceptable behaviour.

Specifically for the Abrahamic religions, how can they teach hope when they say that apocalypse will occur and everyone will either leave the earth to heaven or go to hell? That doesn't seem like a very hopeful scenario to me. If the church taught children about justice then everyone with believe 'an eye for an eye'.

And finally many religions can be generous its true, the Pope is so generous about Catholicism that he tells all Catholics not to use condoms and have more babies as well as generously spreading HIV/ADS around the world. How can you get much more generous than that??

Just because I never went to church and am Atheist does not make me an immoral person. I just don't have other peoples morals forced onto me so I can't make my own choices about the world and what I think is right or wrong.

Also I don't mind people practicing their religions, or teaching their kids about it. But the way it is taught in many places is that you must believe in God/Allah/polytheistic beings because otherwise you will go to hell and never go to heaven after the Apocalypse/Ragnarök/Götterdämmerung.

bboy66 wrote:

QUOTE:
Yes religion can teach kids about compassion, but only compassion to the people that fit into this little box of what we deem acceptable behaviour.

Specifically for the Abrahamic religions, how can they teach hope when they say that apocalypse will occur and everyone will either leave the earth to heaven or go to hell? That doesn't seem like a very hopeful scenario to me. If the church taught children about justice then everyone with believe 'an eye for an eye'.

And finally many religions can be generous its true, the Pope is so generous about Catholicism that he tells all Catholics not to use condoms and have more babies as well as generously spreading HIV/ADS around the world. How can you get much more generous than that??

Just because I never went to church and am Atheist does not make me an immoral person. I just don't have other peoples morals forced onto me so I can't make my own choices about the world and what I think is right or wrong.

Also I don't mind people practicing their religions, or teaching their kids about it. But the way it is taught in many places is that you must believe in God/Allah/polytheistic beings because otherwise you will go to hell and never go to heaven after the Apocalypse/Ragnarök/Götterdämmerung.

if people are following the popes advice about condoms i doubt they'd be sleeping around at the same time: the church also preaches devotion to ONE partner and your both supposed to be virgins so it's unlikely (but also not impossible) that the partner will hav HIV/AIDS

no one said athiests were immoral but u do hav some crazy ideas which don't hold true to the everyday christian. u keep trying to find bad things about religion and the best u can come up with is things in the past.

my advice: open ur eyes and realise that (good) Christians don't hate you! or anyone. they won't force you to be straight, they won't reject you from their churches. so stop hating on them.
(above is referring to pentecostal churches)<br /><br />Post edited by: Sxcriley, at: 2007/10/10 21:20

First, might I point out that the fact you are saying atheists have some crazy ideas is... well... sad. Btw, I can name something &quot;bad&quot; quite easily that is always true of religion. It fosters belief in the supernatural, in that which by its very nature is based outside the realm of reason. It is instead based in the realm of faith. The realm of madness. Madmen often have faith in god. Madmen have faith in aliens and the &quot;fact&quot; that the world is out to get them too. I'm not saying the religious are mad, but what they believe is well within that realm when analyzed reasonably.

But it seems that the more absurd the beliefs of a religion are, the greater their followers hold to the idea that it is true. They use the idea that because it is too good to be true, it must be true. When faced with evidence of the contrary, they dig into their illusion even further, content in ignorance. Might I suggest that you study evolutionary theory and secular humanism. I can suggest a book right now, a nice short and to the point read. The GOD Delusion, by Richard Dawkins. I'll read the Bible again, and you can read that.

An aside to atheists. Read the Bible, or the Qu'ran, or whatever scripture the majority of people you have contact with believe. Religious scriptures are excellent in combating their own ideas. Just look at the story of Jesus birth if you want a wealth of contradiction and falsehoods, haha.

So the fact that you and Richard Dorkins (woops i mean Dawkins...) think that believing in the supernatural is &quot;bad&quot; suddenly it's bad for all humanity.
If the only bad thing about Christianity is that it &quot;fosters belief in the supernatural&quot; then i don't think that there is any good grounding on banning religion (which is, if you didn't notice what this topic is about).
So go back and read a few more chapters of your precious &quot;God Delusion&quot; and come back with a few more reasons why religion is &quot;bad&quot;.
Btw the day i read &quot;The God Delusion&quot; (for sport) is the day i drop all that i am and become another face...

Haha, of course it is, a good Christian would never go near it, it's the devils work, just like curiosity is the greatest threat to the religious mind... but let's not get juvenile here, if we can't argue peacefully and rationally there's no point to arguing in the first place.

In case you have not read my first post in here (which I have a tingling feeling you haven't... maybe I'm psychic) I do not, and would never support the banning of religion.

Well, I suppose you have a point... I mean, people never have liked truth much, they always seem to resist it when it's all around them, so why would truth be something to attain to? Believing blindly in something cool like... like... like a neurotic, chauvinistic, sadistic, psychotic, homicidal, infanticidal, jealous, super-guy in the sky that happens to have multiple personality disorder thrown in for good measure. Yeah. That's sooo much cooler. (Don't believe all that? Go read the &quot;good book&quot; yourself.)

Anyway, you wanted more examples of the negative effects of religion? Sure thing. Here are two more. Would you like more? I'm sure I can get more up? But then, tell me, what is the point when an individual does not listen to the very reasoning behind the argument?
1: Fundamentalism
- Face it, just about every religion develops these guys and gals. They believe whole-heartedly that what they believe is the truth. And thus, no ammount of scientific evidence to the contrary is going to convince them otherwise. Like most people of faith, they see everything as black and white. This is interestingly the way most individuals among the lower tiers of intelligence see things. Fascinating. It's always great fun to take &quot;truth&quot; from a book, much easier that way, and it doesn't even require getting off the couch.

2: Superstition... sorry I couldn't help but bring up some other points here.
- Excuse me for one thing, that being that I am speaking as an American, and thus have only have a distinct view on America where this is concerned... but after doing a little reading, it seems to be a problem, if not so much of one, in many other nations. Anyway, stem cell research, which can work to save millions of lives, is being held back by the religious. So called pro-life (they are usually pro-death penalty as well... fascinating) groups seek to impose their way of life on others to ban abortions, essentially removing an individuals rights. There is also the issue of homosexual rights, which include but are hardly limited to gay marriage. These initiatives are held back by religious groups. Whether you would like to admit it or not, the vast majority of the devout in the Abrahamic religions are opposed to homosexuality, ignoring, as they are wont to do, all scientific evidence of the contrary.

I'm tired. So I'll bring this rant to a close. May I ask you exactly what it is that makes you so opposed to atheistic thought? I am honestly baffled by theistic thinking, to the point that it is nigh impossible for me to understand enough to even argue. It is so incredibly illogical and yet has such a powerful hold on the human mind... it would be a lot more fascinating if it wasn't so dreadfully absurd.

Tell me, what is wrong with picking up and reading something? I've read the bible, I've read the Qu'ran, and it's not like I did either because I was particularly interested, I did it so that I might learn something. Is that really so bad? Is gaining knowledge and insight something to look down on?

Ugh, anyway, as already stated, I answered the question for the banning of religion, but the numbers are in and it is as it should be. Nothing is getting banned. But debate and, dare I say, rational argument are the new name of the game. So let's not hide behind the topic, and lets start a new one if you like. One last thing, I couldn't help but notice your above post contributed nothing really to your point. Is it that you cannot find anything that really supports your ideas? Please don't be afraid to bring up points in favour of your argument, as I have already done so.

peace mate, let's keep it civil ^^v

I'll answer your last question first: I don't really remember bringing up a point, I'm more just trying to shoot down some of the off-hand remarks people are making that belittle my beliefs.

Now back to the start. Firstly please don't patronize me and act as if I have a veil in front of my eyes to make me oblivious to the world around me. If we're going to be civil (as you want us to be) could you at least speak about God and such as if it's not a little game for the stupid sheep in the world to play (even if you believe it)...

Your next remark is again condescending and seems directed towards an ignorant child, so I'll leave that one.

Fundamentalism: I do believe that the bible is literal truth.
Again &quot;lower tiers of intelligence&quot;, please... You're outlook on christianity is so single-minded that it's quite sad. This should be an open field, no belittlement.

Superstition: I agree that, in the wrong hands, religion can be a bad thing.

I'm not entirely opposed to Atheist thought. Just the little ridiculous remarks that are rude and unthoughtful. Also i dislike the generalisations...

I won't read the 'God Delusion&quot; on principle that it would signify that I'm questioning my faith; which I'm not. I see absolutely no need to waste several hours of my life reading the controversial works of Dawkins.

Let me finish by stating that I think it is incredibly unfair that people can go around using religion as a negative force on society which pushes people out of the church. Where I live anybody can attend church and praise God, if otherwise happens in other churches I think thats simply sad.

Thats it i suppose.

Sxcriley wrote:

QUOTE:
you are all complete hypocrites
u flare up when people try to take away (or i suppose refuse to give) gay peoples rights
yet you try to deprive Christians basic rights: like passing their beliefs on to their children
seriously if something bad happened to you when u were a kid and u think its religions fault (gay bashing? teasing?) just build a bridge! Be the bigger person!
The world is bigger than your opinions

The world is in a terrible way and I think we ALL know Christians aren't exactly making it a whole lot worse (I'm referring to pentecostal Christians anyway...) so stop making religion a scapegoat for any gay-hate you have received as tons of people are anti-gay and also non-religous!
Errr people frustrate me.

Just read some other peoples posts: ERRR again! You are all so impractical!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Post edited by: Sxcriley, at: 2007/10/07 23:07

I think you need to look again. There are quite a few people who DON'T want to ban religion. So your general statement of &quot;You are all complete hypocrits.&quot; Is insulting at best. I'd advise you to reword it.


it has been pointed out by many, including a few who do not believe in any religion, that religion does good things. But the way some interpret the words in any bible can be devastating. People like Fred Phelps come to mind. He is an easy example, but there are others just as bad if not worse.


There are smart people in every religion, they think for themselves and follow the doctrine to the best of their ability. There are also those who blindly follow what they are told. There are the same kind of people who are atheist as well. So don't think I am attacking religion here. just stating facts.

Shooting at remarks won't win you an argument. Anyway, I was amusing myself. You bite, I bite back, after all your remarks where well open to easy criticism.

Anywho, to the topic at hand. It is my observation that religion is a blinding veil. You yourself just said that you will not read the book simply because it would signify you are questioning your beliefs, which might I add, would not be the case unless in truth you truly do question your beliefs. If you do, that's your deal, not mine.

What I'm saying is that religion is very much a veil which shades your view of the world, rather than allowing you to discover and develop your own thoughts based on actual experience. The truth is, whether you like to admit it or not, that the only reason you believe in God is because somehow, somewhere, someone else had an impact on your life. This is most likely parents. If it had not been for them, you might stare up at the sky and wonder not in the greatness of god, but in the majestic simplicity and marvel of the natural forces of the universe.

On fundamentalism... you believe the bible is literal truth? Tell me, what causes you to believe this? Because the bible contradicts itself enough times that it's clearly an absurd concept. Ask most top theologians, and you might be surprised to discover that they believe it is not to be interpreted literally. This is because they have studied the book in depth, and would look foolish if they declared it to be entirely literal truth.

Lower tiers of intelligence, less educated individuals, those with low - average IQ, whatever you wish to call it, it is still a statistical fact that the higher you go up in rank in terms of education, the less theists you will find. My argument here is hardly single-minded, it is based on fact, which if you like I can take the time to retrieve the statistics.

Here is why I am rude. Besides that I am already somewhat anti-social. Religion is a form of madness. It essentially creates some divine presence, with absolutely zero proof or evidence, and declares that it has created the universe, mankind, that it gave rules that everyone should live by, etc etc etc. We can take the thousands of other examples out there of similar concepts. The invisible pink unicorn is my personal favourite. I can say it is there, but that it is invisible, and does not exist on the physical plane of existance. It cannot be detected, but some people can see it, and feel it's presence. If someone said this to you, you would presume them mad. The same thing can be said of god. Abraham heard god speak to him, but how do we know he wasn't a schizophrenic? We cannot truly trust the bible, since it clearly has a bias on the issue, so how do we know? By faith? Precisely, blind belief conquers reason.

And lastly, about generalizations (I apologize that this is so long, btw) it is impossible not to address such a large body of thought such as religion without bringing generalizations to play. They are based on the majority. If I knew more about your faith in particular, I would use that as a more precise example.

In case it needs it, I do not believe banning religion can ever have anything but a negative effect. To silence free thought is no better than genocide, for it is an atrocity concentrated on the mind rather than the body, which is arguable worse. Unfortunately, in the US it is common for exactly the opposite to occur, that atheistic ideas are stamped out by powerful religious groups.

And I just noticed something else... you claim that homophobia cannot be blamed on religion... I beg to differ. Up until the period when Christianity began cropping up, homosexuality was quite often something to be looked on with honour. When Christianity and other dogmatic influences began to enter society, that was when homosexuality became a major social taboo. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the social history of a society influences it's future, thus the gay-rights movement is fighting hundreds of years of indoctrination spread about primarily through religious thought. I've never met an atheist yet who is against homosexuality... though admittedly atheists tend to be an individualistic lot, and don't like social pressure much.

okay, I better stop now before I write an essay... &gt;.&gt;';