but yeah as simon said, no one can help what they are attracted to, but everyone can control those urges (especially those adults) to do things that ties in with what attracts them. I do think pedophilles do deserve to go to prison for things they have done, but I don't think a life sentence is fair but still they should do time for what they did

I can only speak on American attitudes concerning pedophiles - I sadly lack enough exposure to speak to other societies' outlooks.

That said, in the USA, I find that Pedophiles are more publicly derided than murderers - the current attitude is one that views them as deviants and undesirables who seek to destroy innocence, and thus should not be granted any rights under the law. While this perception may be in some cases and in some ways correct, it has no place in the law. At the center of the debate is another - is the prison system for rehabilitation, for punishment, or for isolation? I strongly favor the first of these options, which places me in an unpopular position in modern (American) society.

You cannot rehabilitate and punish an adult. Its not possible. The choice to do one or the other is a conscious choice that societies and governments make, and both options can be seen (Scandinavian justice is based around rehabilitation, the American justice system between punishment and isolation, etc.) in nations throughout the world.

Personally, I don't believe that anyone "deserves to suffer". In fact, I find it insulting to learn that so many think this way. What do you gain from other people's suffering? What does the person suffering gain? What does the victim gain? The answer is, from my experience, either nothing or pain for all of the above. Punishment does not affect a change in people's attitudes. It does not make them agree with the rest of society. It does not keep them from doing what they did again, given the chance. That is the goal of rehabilitation.

Castration is patently offensive to anyone living in a developed nation. Its testament to the idea that not matter how far we rise, we can always fall back into patently barbaric and cruel punishments that don't treat the cause of the problem. Most (forced) pedophilia is caused by a root desire for control, or so psychologists find. It is not merely sexual attraction that compels any type of non-consensual sexual activity. Thus, castration treats very little in this case - only serving to make us feel better at the expense of the criminal, who is now the victim.

Publicly available databases of accused (yes, in most cases the names compiled consist of the acquitted as well, and names are almost never removed from these lists) are infringements upon the rights of any human being. Additionally, they actively work against rehabilitation, isolating the pedophile from the rest of society and reinforcing his alienation - more than likely a component of what led to his behavior in the first place.

Both of the above are prime examples of cruel and unusual punishment, as others have thankfully pointed our. Read the Scarlet Letter if you don't understand why the second is.

Additionally, the argument about the age of consent is a good one - when the age of consent varies from country to country and state to state, who can consent? Punishing consensual and non-consensual acts equally makes no sense, but its difficult to draw this line with children.

Should ANYONE suffer?

Anyone who says someone else should suffer, should suffer more themselves. No one deserves to suffer, they should rather be helped with what causes them to "deserve" to suffer.

SimplySimon wrote:

QUOTE:
hmmm pedophilia

I can't help but feel the need to defend pedophiles. People can't help who they are attracted to, if one is attracted to under-age people they shouldnt be punished and ostracised. as for the original poster and danie_girl, I feel sympathy for you, people who do that sort of thing should be punised.

Make up your mind!!! How can you defend monsters like that? No, they probably cant help who they are attracted to, BUT as adults they should have the concience NOT to act on those feelings. Maybe there should be more attention given to victims. Having been thru this, I know from experience that there is very little support out there. It's almost a case of "well this sort of thing doesn't happen in our community". Wrong. Ok so there are academics who assume they know what they are talking about when they offer councelling, but ultimately it's only the victims that know for sure how they feel deep inside, how this has affected them mentally and physically. danie_girl and I are two of the lucky ones. I've come out of this a stronger person. Two of the boys involved were not so lucky - one hung himself and the other blew his brains out with a shot gun. It's these acts that made me determined to survive, more than any amount of councelling. I'm proud of who I am now - even went to pride this year, but i sometimes still shy away from someone older than me when they try "hit" on me. I guess it's because my trust in adults was shattered. I dont feel raw hatred towards them anymore, I think of them now as insignificant insects - kinda squashed under the heel of my boot. What does still bug me is one day these men will get out of prison, free to resume a normal life in society. My two fallen fellow victims dont have that luxury. You are always in my thoughts, Angelo and Luke. Sleep peacefully.

ps not afraid to admit it - shed a tear for my lost friends<br /><br />Post edited by: waverider, at: 2007/09/15 21:51

Monsters?

People who aren't attracted to what is considered the 'norm' are monsters?

In case you haven't noticed, you are part of the GLBT community...

It's like you have just repeated what I have said and somehow have used it against me. Not once did I 'defend' the actions of the people that abused you.

QUOTE:
No, they probably cant help who they are attracted to, BUT as adults they should have the concience NOT to act on those feelings.

I said that exact thing. They can't help who they are attracted to and shouldn't be judged based on who they are attracted to
but they can help whether they act on these attractions or not.

So really my mind is made up, and that is that pedophiles should not have to suffer. In all honesty, I can't help but sympathise for them.

P.S. Paragraphs go a long way....

SimplySimon, I have to ask this question. Do you consider robbing a child of their innocence a crime?

waverider wrote:

QUOTE:
SimplySimon, I have to ask this question. Do you consider robbing a child of their innocence a crime?

Like I said before, at what age is a person mature enough to consent?

And of course, people who abuse minors should be punished, but before punishing them the question of consent must be taken into account. Obviously if it was done with NO consent granted then yes, what they have done is a crime and should be punished.

Consent, especially in the case of minors, can be a very vague area.

Lets first look at what constitutes a peadolile.

This is a person who intentionally sets out to have sexual encounters with children, whatever form these may take, and actively pursues and accomplishes their goal. This could be anything from downloading images from the internet to physical contact. The mere possession of images of children can, as in the UK, warrant a peado liable to prosecution and inclusion on a sex offenders register.

This line of thought goes one step further. Someone that has an attraction to children, but never acts on that attraction, can still classify themselves as a peado none-the-less. Granted, this is at the shallow end of the peado scale.

The majority of people that have an attraction toward children, and act on that attraction, cannot deny that they are peadofiles. They encounter a child, get to know the child, build up a rapport, and more importantly build up a trust with that child. A child will trust an adult unconditionally, it's the first lesson we learn from the day we are born. It's only as a child grows up that this deep-rooted trust is tested.

It's this trust that a peado uses to his benefit. He relies on this trust to gain the child's confidence to the point where the child doesn't even question events that they either know or suspect may be wrong. All peado's are very good at manipulating situations to suit themselves. This is called grooming. It's these sorts of peado's that are known to the child, and the child's family. They are usually an uncle, dad, grandfather, brother - someone the child does not fear, is not a stranger, and has lived with most or all of their lives. The child does not feel threatened in any way, and often believes the situation to be &quot;normal&quot;.

Then we get the deep end of the peado scale. The person who randomly selects a child for the sole purpose of satisfying a sexual need. This is done primarily to avoid detection, without any regard for the child's well being at all. The child is merely an object, a means to an end, to be discarded once the desire or lust has been fulfilled. This type of peado is never satisfied, and will always seek out new victims.

Now lets look at consent.

Does a 13 year old have the mental maturity to decide for themselves that they want sex with an adult? Probably, but the 13 year old will rather experiment with someone their own age. The key word here is &quot;want&quot;. They will not actively seek out an adult purely for the purpose of having a sexual encounter. What about an 11 year old? Probably not, as an 11 year old has only heard about sex on television and at school. What about the pre-pubescent? They most definately do not have the mental maturity to understand what sex is all about.

Does consent mean that the child doesn't say no, because they trust the adult? Does it mean the child says yes, because they trust the adult? Is it merely a case of going along with the adult's wishes to avoid a beating, or some other form of punishment?

When the peado belittles the child into believing they are worthless, nothing, a non-entity in this world, then there can never be concent. The child has been forced to accept the adult's version of reality by his method of grooming, a reality that is not a reality. It is a total fabrication, put in place merely to &quot;win the child over&quot;. Can there be consent in this situation by the child?

The age of consent differs from country to country, and is defined by society. All peado's blatantly disregard this consentual age. And let's face it, a peadofile only comes to light when they are caught. It's only at this point that they scream leniency, blame their actions on past events, and offer to go on rehabilitation courses purely to limit the extent of puishments to be handed out by the courts. They have no empathy for the ones they have abused. If they did they would not molest children in the first place.

I still say they should be made to suffer, and proportionate to the amount of suffering they have caused. I cannot ever feel any sympathy for them, but then I'm justifiably biased.