For those of you who do not know about this guy and the westboro babtist church and would like to know in full detail go here This is a link

But basically, he is a homophobic douche who harasses people constantly by picketing many places having to do with gay-rights, a death in the military, or political matters such as the pope visiting the president (???).

I went to the church's website and i was surprised to see a religious website that directly said "god hates fags" right on the front page. This is something very disturbing to not only the gay community but to families and those who have died in the war. I know alot of people hate the war and don't want to support it, but does that mean we have to hate those who died while trying to accomplish something with good intentions in their hearts and that is why i who hates wars sympathize with those who have to deal with this at funerals.

Recently this guy had lost a court case, but to me he doesn't seem to be feeling like he did, in fact i think he's finding a loop hole or something and i'm afraid he'll succeed. It's not only that though, it doesn't feel like it's enough.

So i ask you guys of the gay community, what can we do to strike back in a legal way? I thought about doing a Picket event during his Picket events (there's a Picket schedule on the westboro babtist church official site), but how would i recruit people to help out y'know? plus there are pickets of his going on other places at the same time...

What can we do? They are about only a few voices compared to ours. i know there are more gay people and families of those who died in war.

My thought on how to attack?

- Picketing his events
- Flooding the church's website causing it to be unavailable
- Protesting his actions and proposing a new law that would in some wait make his actions illegal.

People have rights, and one of the most important right we seem to not care about is that everyone has the right to live in peace.

Attack? Defence?

Who has he harmed? As far as I have seen, he hasn't, he's exercised his free speech. Now, I'm not in the U.S. so perhaps there are details I don't know of due to the distance, but from what you've said, there seems to be no real need to attack him or rally against him. If he's crossed the legal line on the military funeral matters, then I'll be happy to let the legal system make us pretend it's finally doing something useful.

I admire your desire to be heard, and fight for something you believe in, but I don't think he's much of a rival. A foam-mouthed Bible-frother perhaps, but not someone worthy of much attention.

As for your thoughts on 'attacking' this guy.

- Picketing his events - Check, good work.
- Flooding the website to disable it - Firstly, you might want to check the legality of that. Also, most decent websites have a spamfilter, even if it's supplied by the host of the site, and unless you're a proficient hacker and are ready to perhaps get in legal trouble, I'd say this jerk ain't worth it.
- Proposing a law that would make his actions illegal - Um... what actions? Protesting? You could perhaps say that it should be illegal to protest in such disrespectful circumstances, but if you get so hair-fine with details when it comes to when people can and can't protest on such subjective terms as 'disrespect', then you'll cause problems. Heck, you might end up illegalising your own protests.

As you say, people have rights. And as long as he's keeping on the right side of the law, free speech sees that he has the right to be an arsehole. Just like free speech gives me the right to be a prick on here, it's a two-way road.

Everyone has the right to live in peace, but peace doesn't come so rigidly enforced.

And IF you had somebody who died trying to defend something he/she believed and those people harassed your time of mourning expressing terms of hate towards him. If your part of the gay community and somebody uses that against your family and friends, how does that make them and yourself feel.

Another thing is that people have a right to free speech and yet they use it in a abusive way to eliminate another's rights. Suddenly doesn't that seem like something other than trying to express your right of free speech... maybe possibly a verbal assault? And they are getting away with it.

Lastly, you sure as heck now what they are doing is wrong. And if alot of people in our community are like you "A Prick" (you said it not me) then i can see why we aren't taken seriously in terms of marriage and rights relevent to that for all GLTB people.

Let me make this clear for the next person, i'm asking for advice on how to stop this guy. What methods can we take? Yes he is expressing his right of speech, and yes he's hurting people with it and destroying what it means to have free speech.

I don't want a guy ruining my right to free speech, and he'll eventually succeed in doing that. He is pissing off alot of law making people.

What does it matter how I feel? Look, you're being immature. You're pondering on breaking the law to get at a guy that's pissing you off. Why don't you just assault the guy (sarcasm you authoritarians).

There's a difference between verbal assaults (which is pretty minor bickies) and exercising free speech. As long as he's not breaking the law I see no need to interfere, and if he has broken the law, then I'll reitterate and say I'll let the law deal with him. What rights of others' is he infringing on? At the end of the day, it's a balance between his rights and everyone elses.

Ugh, now you're just sounding like a whinger, let's stay focused shall we. I would concede that crummy half-arse plans that are seemingly based on spite won't get anyone anywhere ever. 'Yeah, let's hack into the church's website and flood it', you sound like a wannabe terrorist.

He's not ruining your right to free speech. Stop being an alarmist and realise these people are negligible minorities.

Free speech can be fucking ugly; if you can't handle it, go start a dictatorship.

ok i did a little digging in my law books (class) and found this:

The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government. The Supreme Court requires the government to provide substantial justification for the interference with the right of free speech where it attempts to regulate the content of the speech. A less stringent test is applied for content-neutral legislation. The Supreme Court has also recognized that the government may prohibit some speech that may cause a breach of the peace or cause violence. The right to free speech includes other mediums of expression that communicate a message.

here is what i get out of it:
you basically have to prove that his followers acted violently to someone of their targeted group. this can include intimidation to the point that you fear for your wellbeing: this can include acts of violence such ass throwing a bottle at someone, touching someone in a violent manner (i.e grabbing arm...) : this can include threats of harm, believable enough to intimidate a reasonable person to the point of fear for their wellbeing: so forth. if you can find strong proof that he caused something like the above, then you have a possible law changing lawsuit. if not, you dont have a case.

just my .02

Thank you for bringing Fred Phelps to my attention. This is an interesting thread. First of all Bravolima not that I am saying that your "advice" is helpful and not that I'm a moderator and can tell you what to say, but this section is an advice column, and your advice isn't well good advice.

As far as rallying against this man and his organization, there are websites that offer these kinds of services. I believe this man is a complete politically incorrect, ignorant shit-for-brains douchebag.

Anyhow, you could petetion with evidence that his slogans and picketing is emotionally hurtful against soliders and the gay community of course.

This man has faced numerous court cases as it is and his next picket is against the Pope and I seriously doubt that Fred Phelps will get anywhere near him. I think attacking ( non-physically ) him would make me, myself feel better but in the long run its probably not the best idea.

Well GNR, your advice is invalid.

Now please tell me why mine is instead of doing what I've just done.

Everyone else seems kind of complacent about this criminal wannabe planning unnecessary attacks.

I never said your advice wasn't helpful, i just thought you put it out there bluntly and rude. And im not trying to be a dick by saying it like that, honestly.

Attack him for what?

Yeah, he's a dick, and what he is doing may not be right ... to us (of course it's right to his cult). But I think passing motorists take good care of he and his family. I watched a video of passerbys throwing rocks at the little kids protesting. Little kids, which, do not know the meaning of "fag" ... which is basically their entire doctrine.

At any rate, until breaking of the law is done (which he has inspired many it-is-illegal-to-protest-at-funerals laws), I'm afraid we can't legally do anything ... But really, he'll be the death of himself. The more people that are aware of it, the more people that will hate him and his family.

You can only fly an American flag upside down outside of your "church" for so long without attracting the public's attention.

Blunty, rude? Now who's being blunt and rude

Sorry, but when I've seen such hypocritical, wannabe heroic martyrist suggestions.

'What can we do to fight back? Should we throw bricks through his windows or slash his tyres?'

I've seen it enough times I shouldn't care, as the end result seems to invariably inaction, but it ticks me off all the same.

Everyone wants to talk, noone wants to listen, of course. The black and white of free speech eh?