excellent...lets put this topic to rest then.

i guess ill be one of the odd guys out when i say that i fully support gw bush in everything that he does. i beleive that liberating iraq if you wanna call it that was and is completely necesar. and i also beleive there are many other places where force is needed.

tiger88 wrote:

QUOTE:
i guess ill be one of the odd guys out when i say that i fully support gw bush in everything that he does. i beleive that liberating iraq if you wanna call it that was and is completely necesar. and i also beleive there are many other places where force is needed.

LMAO

okay, okay, so let's just assume we BELIEVE the bush administration when it uses the heartstring words 'liberate', 'freedom', 'democracy', 'war on terror', 'axis of evil' etc.....

what did the americans remove in iraq?
saddam husseins's baathist (socialist) regime, right?
and what did it put in its place?
sectarian bloodshed, separatist kurds in THREE COUNTRIES, and absence of the rule of law,
not to mention routine kidnapping, suicide bombing, a show trial specially edited for fox and cnn viewers..................

but then someone will say 'wait a sec! saddam killed kurds! we've gotta punish him for that!' - yes, his regime did. it killed lots of them.
but the turks killed more.
do they invade turkey now for something they've been doing for the last 40 or more years?
do they invade turkey for the armenian genocide of 90 years ago?

do they invade syria for being baathist as well?

human rights abuses? lack of adequate care?

one state:
LOUISIANA,
one hurricane,
and we all know its name.

fix your own bloody backyard before poking your nose into the business of other continents.

as i said before, if people want 'liberation', they'll do it themselves.

pete, i agree with most of your points throughout this lil discussion...however, to show the sharp contrast between the crimes against humanity on saddam's part and the crimes in places such as turkey, i will type:

the difference between turkey and iraq is that, mostly because of the wish to join the EU, turkey has made hugeeeee strides to deliver a level of human rights that is close to par with the rest of europe. there have been many political apoligies made for what happened. turkey is now considered to be the most progressive muslim populated nation in the world.
However, saddam never did make reprimands for the slaying of the kurdish people. well, he denied it, so saying sorry to somethign you claim u didnt do isn't a good move.

so, when a government is not held accountable for mistakes made in the past, the country suffers. turkey's govenment has made up for the mistakes of the past. Saddam never owned up to it, and still refuses to in that quack court.

im not in any way justifying bush's move...im just pointing out the error in your argument.however, i agree completely with the whole self determination bit...

_m1k3_k3nn3dy_ wrote:

QUOTE:

<SNIP>
so, when a government is not held accountable for mistakes made in the past, the country suffers. turkey's govenment has made up for the mistakes of the past. Saddam never owned up to it, and still refuses to in that quack court.

im not in any way justifying bush's move...im just pointing out the error in your argument.however, i agree completely with the whole self determination bit...

i disagree that turkey has atoned for its past indiscretions, when it continues a campaign of repression of its kurdish minority, and plays down the significance of the armenian genocide.

turkey also does not much in regard to the situation in cyprus, where its puppet-state in the north refuses to have anything to do with the greek south.

then you've got the thousands upon thousands of greeks who were driven from their homes, and now live all over the world - just see how many gravestones in the greek orthodox part of town cemeteries have ASIA MINOR as the birthplace, and you'll see the scale of the issue.

there's also the issue of hagia sophia cathedral - the greeks want it back as a cathedral, the turks continue to leave it as a mosque/museum.

saddam hussein was a friend of the usa back when he purged kurds, remember that, and remained for many years afterwards. to support a regime like that, then to conveniently turn your back on it as the usa did stinks of hypocrisy in its worst form.

turkey is goin in the right direction admitting that they have done wrong. they are one of the most progressive muslim nations in the world at this point in time. i was very impressed when i visited there a month ago. as far as iraq, sadam is now out and things will be under controll. even if nothin else was found it was very important to get rid of sadam for everyones protection.

well in actuality people in iraq feel more vulunerable now then they did when saddam was in power...at least then, they could walk outside knowing that if they did not tick off his regime they were going to get home alive. now they don't know what to think.